INT: You're at a point now where you probably see a lot of people coming into the business or coming into--[JS: Making movies, not the business necessarily.] Not the business. I didn't mean the business. I meant making movies. Who are aspiring filmmakers and you must see yourself in them in some ways, you know, and the world is in front of them. What kinds of things do you say to them in terms of just, you know, 'cause it's 2012 is a different time--
JS: Yeah, one of the things I think, the two things I say the most often is this is also your life, so as hard as filmmaking is and when you're in it is remember that it's your life, and the way you treat people... You know, I always say, “As, you know, on your second film, you have to have, to pay people something or get new friends.” But also, it's, you know, these are your friends you're making this movie with, and remember that, you know? It's your life, and yes, it's an intense thing that you're doing, but yet there has to be some balance in that. And then the other thing is that you can absolutely make films easier than ever before. The technology is cheaper, it's more democratic, it's easier to know, there's just more information out there for young filmmakers to know how to do it, people have practice at much younger ages. You know, if you're, you know, six years old now and you get a little, you know, still camera, you can start making movies. However, the idea of being a professional at it may be harder than ever, just 'cause there's less money coming back. [INT: So getting paid for it.] Getting paid for it or continuing to getting paid if you're making, you know, the pyramid. You know, think of Sundance [Sundance Film Festival] getting 4,000 feature films. That's mostly for second or third time filmmakers sending those in. Well next year, there's gonna be another 3,000 or 4,000 and the next year, you know, so they're, we're talking, you know, 20, 50, 100,000 filmmakers out there who have made a feature film who may wanna make another one. Out of those Sundance films, they only choose about 50 films. Maybe eight of those get a theatrical distribution of the features, you know? Of those eight, maybe two of those people go on to get to make a real studio film or anything that's financed by somebody else. That's a very, very, very, very, you know, high pyramid to climb up on, and even if you do get to make it, I know, you know, a half dozen people who did very well at Sundance with their first film and haven't made another feature yet or make one every six years, you know, by hook or crook. [INT: So the general reaction to that would be oh, I'm doing the wrong thing?] No, I just say, and so think of what else you're going to do or what else you might want to do, but you're gonna have to think of filmmaking possibly as a hobby, you know? And so yeah, you like to write novels, but you're probably going to have to get a teaching job or some other straight job that leaves you enough time every once in a while to sit down and write. With filmmaking, you have to concentrate the time that you make it a little bit more, so you know, you may have to have serial jobs and in between those serial jobs, you make a movie and then it either gets seen on YouTube or doesn't get seen at all or whatever. You're gonna be able to do it, but you may not be able to do it with professionals. And you probably won't get to be a professional yourself, especially if you want to be a writer/director. If you want to be a DP [Director of Photography] and you get good, you'll never stop working. If you want to be a grip and you get good, once you get in, you may work quite a bit or you may be able to work forever for very little money, you know? That's up to you. But if you're gonna have kids or pay rent or things like that, it's gonna be tougher. So there are countries where almost all the filmmakers are from well-to-do families because that ability to live when you're 22 to 32 and just, you know, not make any money is not an option for most people.

INT: And as you're talking to that person and they're seeing the reality of who their films can be seen by and the reach that they would have, it also probably comes home a little bit, too, because you've seen a change, too, in how many people are able to see your films with the loss of the DVD market to an extent and--
JS: Yeah, and it's not even how many people who are able to see it. More people than ever are able to see it. It's whether we get any money back to it, so, so, so, you know, more and more people may see it eventually and in some form, but most of those, not a penny is coming back to the filmmaker or the financier. [INT: Why is that?] Just because it, they're seeing it in some form that's not monetized as we say. It's, you know, it's an illegal download or it's on something that you got a tiny little bit of money for it once and then they can show it forever. You know, it's a friend's DVD of it, whatever. So it has a very, very long tail, much longer than feature movies ever planned on having as far as viewership is concerned. But as far as the point where you make the money, what the studios do is try to make all their money in the first weekend, you know, and then have some toys that they can make some money on, you know, whereas an independent film, if you only play one week, which might be pretty successful, you're not making any money back. So you can't go to investors and say, "Oh, see all the money you made back? Invest on my next film." Or if it's your own money, you're not making that money back to make a next film. So, so it is that thing of it's not about how many people are seeing it, it's about whether you're getting the funds back to make another film where you work with professionals.

INT: So in spite of all that, are you gonna keep going [making independent movies]?
JS: I'm gonna make one more movie, but you know, basically every time I've made a movie, there's been this question mark of will I ever get to make another one? There's never been any insurance that I'm gonna be able to make another one. And then there's the question of if you really are having an awfully hard time getting anybody to see if, if you're not getting any kind of distribution, what are you making them for? And then, you know, quite honestly, our, the money that I have to make these things, 'cause I'm not getting paid as much as a Writer as I used to, there's less work, but also just the amount they pay me for each job is less, and that's kind of true generally for Writers now. The amount of money I have to make a movie is less and less, and I'm getting to the point where it's really tough to ask professionals to work even on their minimums, you know, for this. Do I really want to go back to making a movie with, you know, what would have to be very young people who aren't in the guilds or unions yet, and basically say you're just doing this for the experience. You know, can I write something that, you know, and then what's the point if you're not gonna get a scene? So yeah, I don't know, you know? I'm gonna make one more. That's all I know, you know? So I'm, I'm good until about August.

INT: So you're definitely living in the moment as a filmmaker?
JS: Yeah, and I think you have to, you know? It, you know, the independent business certainly changed every two years. You know, two years later, half the distributors who were there two years earlier were out of business and, you know, sometimes there was video money, sometimes there wasn't. Sometimes there was, you know, this art theater chain, sometimes there wasn't. It was even more volatile than the mainstream business and the mainstream business is incredibly volatile now. So, you know, you're kidding yourself if you think you know what's gonna be going on in two years. Certainly technicians, Cinematographers don't know what camera they'll be using in two years and Editors don't know what kind of technology will be in two years, and nobody knows what format they'll be showing people in two years. They just don't know. It's changing that fast. So why kid yourself that you can know anything beyond this film? [INT: Well, I'm going to end by saying that I think that if anybody can find a way, it's gonna be you.] [LAUGHS] Well good. [INT: And I'm very hopeful, so...] Good. [INT: We'll end that way.] Yeah. We'll see. [INT: Thanks.] Thanks. [INT: Thank you, John.] Great.